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tv   The Ed Show  MSNBC  April 11, 2012 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

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sir. thank you, jonathan capehart, of "the washington post." and from here, michael smerconish, of michael smerconish. and from here, great comments from both you've. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "the ed show" with ed schultz starts right now. good evening, americans. welcome to "the ed show" tonight from new york. 45 days after the killing of trayvon martin, george zimmerman has been arrested. special prosecutor angela corey announced zimmerman is in custody and is charged with second-degree murder. >> today we filed an information charging george zimmerman with murder in the second degree, a capias has been issued for his arrest. with the filing of that information and the issuance of a capias, he will have a right to appear in front of a magistrate in seminole county within 24 hours of his arrest and thus formal prosecution will begin. >> corey and her team decided they have enough evidence to prosecute zimmerman under a second-degree murder charge. in florida, the state must prove these three elements beyond a reasonable doubt to get a conviction on a second-degree
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murder. one, the victim is dead. two, the death was caused by a criminal act of the defendant. and three, it was an unlawful killing by a dangerous act, the defendant demonstrated a depraved mind without regard for human life. if zimmerman is found guilty, he could face life in prison. angela corey was appointed as special prosecutor to trayvonç martin's case on march 23rd. she said there is only one objective in this case. >> he's troubled by the fact that the state decided to charge him, but i've talked to him about the process. i think anyone who would be charged with second-degree murder would be scared. >> george zimmerman is being held without bail. he has the right to seek bail in a hearing. zimmerman's new attorney, marco o'mara, says his client will plead not guilty. prosecutor angela corey spoke about navigating this case after
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it has played out in public. >> we have rules of criminal procedure, florida statutes and rules of ethics. so much information got released on this case that never should have been released. we have to protect this investigation and this prosecution for trayvon, for his family, and for george zimmerman and that's what we will continue to do. >> the parents of trayvon martin watched corey's news conference from washington, d.c. they spoke to the press shortly after the charges were announced. >> we simply wanted an arrest. we wanted nothing more, nothing less. we just wanted an arrest. and we got it. and i say thank you. thank you, lord. thank you, jesus. i just want to speak from my heart to your heart, becauseñáó heart has no color. it's not black, it's not white. it's red. >> we will continue to hold hands on the this journey, white, black, hispanic, latino. we will continue to walk, we
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will march and march and march until the right thing is çdone. >> martin family attorney benjamin crump thanked the public for keeping attention on this case and forcing investigators to take another look. >> you just know that a child had been killed, a child who was sybrina's baby, was trace where i's son, had been killed. and you thought that if this was my child, with i would sign this petition. so thank you for signing that petition. and to all those young people, all the young people, the people who marched, the people who stood up, who refused to look away. >> this is the arrest many people in this country have been demanding, since the killing of trayvon martin became public more than a month ago. the justice system will now take over. today's mark certainly the beginning of justice for trayvon martin, certainly not the end. let's turn to darryl a parks, attorney for the family of
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trayvon martin. mr. parks, thanks for your time tonight. what are your emotions at this hour? this has been a longmo month, n question about it. this has to be a very emotional moment for not only the family, but the team. what are you experiencing? >> oh, ed, it was a tremendous day. i have to tell you, when we talked to angela corey on the cell phone, just minutes before when she told us that she had made the decision to charge, to be in that room with sybrina and tracy and all of the emotion that they had. i mean, it was overwhelming, to be honest with you, the love, the sorrow, the heartfelt that their son's death was finally and all of the energy that they had went through this past 45 days c s culminated with them sitting in a room with a cell phone, and the prosecutor
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assuring them that they were moving forward. that she had done her investigation, had seen all of the evidence. it was a very humbling, sorrowful moment that justice had finally come. >> mr. parks, i want your unvarnished opinion here on why we are here talking about this tonight. was it the advocacy work? was it the media? was it the petition? was it the demonstrations? the social media? all of it that played into it, why are we with here tonight? why are we at this point? >> we're here because of all of it. we're here, number one, because tracy martin, when he heard the facts from the sanford police department, he did not buy it. he felt let down. and when he contacted patricia jones, a local lawyer there in miami and said, hey, we need help, she called our firm. my law partner got on this case and he told tracy, tracy, you're not going to need us. and we had to file a lawsuit. we had to file a lawsuit just to get the 911 tape.
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and chief bill lee called us, and he still wasn't willing to do the right thing. but mayor triplet knew that it was wrong, due to his credit. >> it so started with a father who thought there was a terrible injustice that plaid oyed out a took the life of his son. that's where it all started. >> that's where it all started. >> and here's what angelaç core said about her meeting with the martin family. >> we did not promise them anything. in fact, we specifically talked about if criminal charges do not come out of this, what can we help you do to make sure your son's death is not in vain. >> it's a hard question to ask, but is there a level of satisfaction? i mean, did they throw the book at george zimmerman? are you professionally satisfied with the way this is setting up right now? >> yes, we are. and, you know, there are different courses that you can take in this. i think that the charge that she had made is a good charge. let me make a very important
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point, though, ed. this family is not gloating in what's going on. >> no, i understand. >> because this is a tragedy. but i think from a professional standpoint, that charge, it's a good charge. a little bit better than i originally thought, manslaughter. so for her to charge second-degree murder is good. she's now seen more than i've been privileged to. so obviously she saw something there that was a little bit more, um, convincing to her. >> okay. and what is your instinct right now, mr. parks? we've seen some high-profile murder trials play out in the media in this country. years ago, the simpson trial. what level is this trial going to be at? and are you confident that there will be a conviction? >> i'm very confident there'll be a conviction, ed. let me say this right. we try cases all the time. and in this particular case, you know, the law is so, so.
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i think even despite the law we'll still get a conviction. but any person sitting on a jury in this caác when they hear all the evidence that one guy is armed, one guy's not, that's wrong. people get it, and that's why i don't care who you are, what color you are, what political affiliation. when an armed man kills us an unarmed man, that's wrong. >> so are we going to see this played out in front of the country with the media scrutiny that we've seen with other trials? i mean, could this be the trial of the decade? and the reason why i ask that is because of the stand your ground law, because of the issues of race and injustice that was, i think was played out early on in this. and how hard it was for your team to get the wheels of justice rolling on this. what about the profile of this case? >> the case is extremely dish me -- i mean, it's as high profile as a case gets. i think that the judge in this case will take firm control of the case. i think, luckily, seminole
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county sits right next to orlando. so most of our judges have had a chance to have exposure to other judges that have had high-profile cases. so whoever the judge may be, and you can start narrowing it down pretty well. there are probably three or four judges sitting on the felony bench in seminole county. so we could start narrowing it down right now who might possibly get this case as early as, you know, tomorrow. so that's where we're headed. >> darryl parks, thanks for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> joining me now is reverend al sharpton, host of "politics nation" here on msnbc and the president of the politics action network. the family asked you to get ynvolved. that's how you got involved in this. but i have to give me take on this is that i really believe this in my heart. had it not been for your involvement, your reporting, your advocacy work, the national
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action network, i'm not sure that we would be where we are tonight. and you have been somewhat of a target of criticism in the mix of all of that. where are we at right now? we're at different stages, there's been an arrest, there's charges, and we move forward from here. what are your emotions at this hour, reverend? >> well, i'm very happy that the family has been given at least the dignity of seeing the killer of their son arrested. and i said to them from the beginning when attorney crump called me and i didn't know a case and most of the case didn't, and we got involved. it was going to be hard. and they're going to attack. i'd rather the attacks come on me. that's what i do as an activist, that's what i do hosting a show. as others do when they pick up cases on shows around the cable world. i'd rather come on me than the family, because i think that you have no idea how vicious people can can be. and they now do have that idea and it's far from over.
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tonight, i'm at national action networks convention and the family came and saw the people who kill third son acquitted. so i told them there's nothing guaranteed. i think the first step, i was surprised that the special prosecutor here did charge the way she did. but we still now get -- mustç t by the second hurdle now, the judge not throwing this out based on stand your ground. and i think then a trial. i think the good news is, by this charge tonight, it affirms what all of us, not only national action network, but all of the groups and all of the people that were on social media and all of the nameless people that were not part of the groups that put hoodies on and marched all over the the world said what we said. there was probable cause. that's all we said. there was probable cause. i think that was affirmed tonight and i think that we could be happy about that, but we cannot relax in pursuing to find out the truth and where justice lies in this case.
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>> al, do you think that this trial, this whole scenario that's being played out, is going to have a profound effect on society, profound effect on our justice system? how big is this going to be? >> evening it's going to be very big. one, i think that the stand your ground law is going to really be put under real scrutiny. there was leaders today that met and pledged to work across party lines on that. and when you deal with the fact that you got over 20 states with that law, and other states including new york looking at some variation of the law, you have social implications to this trial. you have, of course, the case of dealing with self-defense. you've got race. there's going to be a lot of elements that will make this a major trial, but the implications of the trial will be far reaching, which is why we have appealed for people to be very civil and sober around this, and not give to just
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reckless rhetoric, because this family is committed that trayvon be remembered for somethingç tt contributed, concretely, to progress in society and not just be something remembered as something that was divisive and destructive. and i think we have an opportunity to do that if we take the high rode. >> and how important was it, reverend, to have a second-degree murder charge and not manslaughter? >> i think it was very important. i think that it says that this prosecutor believes that there's something that really, really was criminal here. we don't know all that she has. we don't know what she reviewed that may not have come to light. she's certainly not one that tries it in public. so i think even all of us that was very much in support of seeing an arrest and a charge, but her doing this, we're saying there must be some things that we don't know. and that's fine. we're not trying to be the lawyers or the prosecutors. we wanted to make the society and the criminal justice system take a second look at this.
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they have and these are the results. >> reverend al sharpton, thanks for your time on "the ed show" tonight. great work. thank you. >> thank you, ed. coming up, what will it take to convict george zimmerman of second-degree murder? i'll talk to attorney mike papantonio and former prosecutor, dan gelber. and the fight to repeal stand your ground laws is officially on in america. ben jealous of the nccap will join me tonight. mitt romney gets caught lying through his teeth about the war on women. and his campaign can't answer a simple question. >> does governor romney support the çledbetter act? >> we'll get back to you on that. >> the one and only lilly ledbetter is responding. and allen west is officially off the rails, fearmongering about a new red scare in
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washington. >> i believe there's about 78 to 81 members of the democratic party who are members of the communist party. >> you won't believe how the west campaign is trying to spin this tape. everything that i've gained in life has been because of the teachers and the education that i had. they're just part of who i am. she convinced me that there was no limit to what we could learn. i don't think i'd be here today had i not had a wonderful science teacher. a teacher can make a huge difference in a child's life. he would never give up on any of us. thank you dr. newfield. you had a big impact on me.
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he is troubled by everything that has happened. and i could not imagine living in george zimmerman's shoes for the past number of weeks. >> welcome back to "the ed show." that was george zimmerman's attorney, mark o'mara. george zimmerman has been officially charged with second-degree murder and is in police custody in florida. florida state attorney angela corey clearly dealt with the possible claim of self-defense in her decision. >> all murders are homicides, but not all homicides are murders. and florida's law clearly says that if there is the affirmative defense of, for example, excusable homicide or justifiable homicide, that should be determinedç before y go to the degree of the crime. this case is just like many of
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the shooting deaths we've had in our circuit. if stand your ground becomes an issue, we fight it. if we believe it's the right thing to do. so if it becomes an issue in this case, we will fight that affirm dative defense. >> i'm joined tonight by dan gelber, a former florida state senator and a former federal prosecutor. and mike papantonio, attorney, president of the national trial lawyers association. gentleman, thanks for your time again tonight. mike, you first. let me get your take on what has unfolded here in the last several hours. where does it stand right now? how hard is it going to be to get a conviction based on what you see? [ inaudible ] i think we're having -- okay, go ahead. >> the argument, as a matter of law, is whether or not this follows within an immunity that
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zimmerman has that a judge can't as a matter of law say, look, this doesn't even go to trial. preliminary hearing could actually solve that problem. the second issue is very clear, ed. the second issue is, this is a second-degree murder is is not a walk in the park writ cohere it to proof. they're going to have to show that it was an unlawful killing. meaning that it wasn't justifiable homicide. second of all, that it was done with a depraved mind. and when you consider what a depraved mind is in florida, what they're talking about is extreme indifference to human life, malice. actually, it gogs as far as saying that it's a person so lacking in ordinary judgment that their conduct rises to extreme indifference. so this is not an easy charge. this isn't something that's a walk in the park. if you add to that the many defenses that right now this defense lawyer has, if it goes to trial, when with it goes to trial, with the failures of the police department, the failures
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of the state attorney's office, in the end, the police department in sanford is going to be on trial, ed. this is going to be a classic example of a police department that has some answering to do. >> well, mr. gelber, the third criteria, there was an unlawful killing of a victim by an imminent danger to another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life. he disregarded a lot of things. these are the three criteria. i mean, we could listen to the 911 tapes and he didn't listen to the dispatcher who told him not to follow him, which i think -- i personally believe that the word "intent" is going to come into play here at some time or another. what was his intent when he left the vehicle with a firearm? but mr. gelber, from what you can see right now, is it going to be hard, in your professional opinion, to get a conviction on second-degree murder? >> well, second-degree murder, it may be a little difficult, simply because it is a fairly precise intent. it's very likely, though, that
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there'll be a lesser included of manslaughter, which is a very serious felony in florida when it's with a weapon. and that's an easier standard. so you may see that the jury is trying to debate the different elements to determine whether or not mr. zimmerman committed the crime. now, remember something. the stand your ground law's átk a big part of this. because even if you get past -- even if the state gets past that initial judge hearing, which is what they'll have to do, that stand your ground law is still part of the jury instruction that's given to the jury. so they're going to be told as long as mr. zimmerman was where he could be lawfully, and he felt reasonable, and of course, the only other person who was right there is deceased, he's going to have the benefit of that stand your ground instruction. whether or not the jury buys it or not, at that point, is another question. >> here is the prosecutor talking about the venue this afternoon. here it is. >> seminole county is absolutely the venue. when we're appointed as prosecutors, we step in to the
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prosecution role down in seminole county. so right now, it is the court of jurisdiction, it is the venue. the question was, did we think we'd be able to try the case there, or i thought -- was that your question, bob? okay. did we think we'd be able to try it there? that's a determination that will be made closer to if and when we pick a jury. >> and there is breaking news. this is at the seminole county intake center. george zimmerman arriving at the police facility. this is george zimmerman arriving at the seminole county intake center, and, somebody, give me some directions. is this a live shot or was this moments ago? this is a live shot right now inside the seminole county intake center. and that is george zimmerman. that is the only shot thatç we have seen of him since he has been charged with second-degree
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murder. so mike papantonio, i asked you the question last night about the 72 hours. it seemed like they had all their bases covered from law enforcement as to how they were going to handle this, and it has come off without a circus. your thoughts? >> she's done a -- this prosecutor has done a very good job, both positioning herself from the standpoint of going forward with trial, by setting this up to where it has a calming nature about the way she's done this. we have a lot to be proud of, of what she's done here. you could tell in her early description of what's taken place, she's trying to defend the seminole police department, the sanford police department. she's trying to say, look, they did the best they could do. she's trying to be -- she's trying to make bridges here. and i've got to tell you something. as i listen to her and as i listen to where she's probably really heading, i'd have to agree with mr. gelber. second-degree is not -- maybe is
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not where she's going, but she knows she has the lesser included of manslaughter. it puts this attorney in the position of understanding, if he goes to trial on a manslaughter with a firearm, ed, he could be looking at 30 years in the state of florida. it puts him in a tough posture of having to negotiate, number one, and second of all, it puts the prosecutors in a perfect position to say to the jury, you may not buy the second-degree murder, but let me tell you why you should have a conviction of manslaughter. it's textbook. she's done a great job positioning this case. >> and of course, we will be0 talking about it a lot. dan gelber, mike papantonio, thank you for your time tonight. appreciate it. a new group wants to eliminate stand your ground laws in 25 states across america. more on the arrest of george zimmerman next. rick santorum told supporters that they'd be better off voting for president obama over mitt romney. now he has ended his bid for the gop nomination. will he go back on his word and
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welcome back to "the ed show." it's not just about trayvon martin. it's about stand your ground. laws in 25 states across this country. critics call these laws a license to kill. today, new york mayor michael bloomberg joined civil rights groups to reform or repeal existing stand your ground laws
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and to defeat similar proposals in other states. mayor bloomberg hit it front and center. he called out the national rifle association. >> florida was the nra's first target. and it succeeded in pushing the bill through the legislature, over the objections of leading police and law enforcement leaders. in reality, the nra's leaders weren't interested in public safety. they were interested in promoting a culture where people take the law into their own hands and face no consequences for it. let's call that by its real name, vigilanteism. >> bloombergç says the right t self-defense was already well established and stand your ground laws were not necessary and led to horrible consequences. >> instead, they justify civilian gun play and invite vigilante justice and retribution with disastrous results. >> and the mayor of new york offered examples of three big states.
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florida has three justifiable homicides before the law was passed. but after the law was passed, so-called justifiable homicide jumped to 34 per year on average. in georgia, so-called justifiable homicides doubled. in texas, a similar result. let's turn to ben jealous, president and ceo of the naacp. ben, good to have you with us tonight. >> thank you, good to be here. >> now, this trayvon martin case has brought forth a conversation i think we've never had before about strand your ground. it's put it front and center. alec, obviously, has been very involved. the national rifle association has been very involved. are we set to have a legislative war in this country? what do you see coming down the pike? >> first, let me say on this night, guinn the news that's happened webetween that press conference and this moment, my heart really goes out to trayvon's family. this is a great moment and it is the beginning of a journey towards justice and it's a journey we have wanted to be on, as reverend sharpton said, this
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is a moment for relief, but not a moment to relax. with that said -- >> ben, i want to show you, this is the video of george zimmerman arriving at the seminole county intake center just moments ago. first your reaction to the 2 c1 charge of second-degree murder brought against george zimmerman. >> yeah, look, i think that's a good thing. i think that it, you know, we were concerned that they may come out with manslaughter today and so it's good to see her come out with second degree. my understanding, this is the maximum that she could pursue without the grand jury and it's a very serious charge. we have said all along, he should be charged with murder. this is being charged with murder. >> here's more from the state attorney about stand your ground laws. >> they fight these stand your ground motions. mr. moody just finished a four-day full stand your ground motion on another case. we fight hard. some of them we've won and we've had to appeal them or the defense has appealed, and we've won it on appeal. some we fought hard and the judge ruled against us.
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that's happening to prosecutors all over the state. >> i mean, this is making the landscape pretty the tough for a conviction. now, moving forward, what's the game plan to get it repealed in 25 states across the country? >> well, look, we have an honest conversation. i think the reality is that until this case happened, and let's be clear, in this case, the issue is frankly the gross misinterpretation of this law. but, you know, until this case happened, the country wasn't talking about it. people didn't realize that these laws are actually wild, wild with west laws. these are shoot to kill laws -- these are shoot first laws. these laws basically say, if one drug dealer and packing and the other one's packing and they both get scared, they can both shoot at each other lawfully. there's been cases where literally thugs, violent, armed thugs have been let off because they got scared. and so we absolutely need to have a conversation about this. we need to get rid of these laws. but at the same time, we need to be clear thatç if we're going prevent more trayvon martins, we have to deal with racial
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profiling, we have to deal with black men's lives not being valued by the cops in the same way. so this is the beginning of a series of pushes coming out of this case. one of them to get rid of stand your ground laws. one of them to finally end racial profiling in this country. >> ben jealous, great to have you with us tonight. i appreciate your time. ben jealous of the naacp. >> thank you. does governor romney support the lilly ledbetter act? >> we'll get back to you on that. >> the campaign problem with romney and women gets worse. tonight, the american icon lilly ledbetter is my exclusive guest. rick santorum didn't have the guts to take his campaign to pennsylvania, but he did have the guts to slam the front-runner. >> he is the worst republican in the country to put up against barack obama. and there's a new red scare in congress, courtesy of the unhinged congressman from florida, allen west.
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after industries dominated by men already took a big hit. industries dominated by women suffered in the aftermath of the economy's initial downturn. but as "the washington post" points out, women have actually fared better than men during the recession. starting in december of 2007, the total decline in jobs was just over 5 million with women accounting for nearly 1.8 million of those jobs. still think romney's telling the truth? >> 92% of the women -- of the people who have lost jobs on barack obama's watch have been women. >> that seems -- >> that's big. >> it seems c-- impossible. >> it seems impossible, actually. >> mitt, when you've lost gretchen carlson, you have real problems. romney's campaign only added to the confusion on a conference call later on. the subject was women's economic securities. sam stein of "the huffington post" asked about the lilly
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ledbetter fair pay act, the first bill president obama signed into law. it allows women to seek restitution for pay discrimination. >> yeah, does governor romney support the lilly ledbetter act? [ silence ] >> sam, we'll get back to you on that. >> oh, "we'll get back to you on that"! well, hours later, team romney offered up this statement, because they didn't know what the heck he was talking about. "he supports pay equity and is not looking to change current law." the campaign also enlisted the helpç of republican congresswon mary bono mack and also cathy mcmorris rodgers. both women defended romney by hitting back at the obama administration. both women, of course, voted against the lilly ledbetter fair pay act along with a vast majority of republicans in congress. the silence was deafening, wasn't it? joining me tonight is lilly
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ledbetter, the namesake of the lilly ledbetter fair pay act. the law helps women fight back against pay discrimination. she is also the author of "grace and grit," and we want to thank you, lilly, for joining us tonight here on "the ed show". >> thank you, ed. i am so grateful. >> well, what's your response to the probable nominee of the republican party not knowing what your law was all about? >> i'm disturbed. i'm very disturbed. and i'm extremely concerned, because that tells me he's really further out of touch with women and our rights than i thought, to not know how he i "we'll get back to you"? that should have been a no-brainer, ed. it should have been very quickly. absolutely not, i would not repeal it. because this bill is simply for republicans and democrats. it's an american right.
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>> and did you feel like progress was being made when president obama signed this and now we're having this big discussion in this country about the war on women and the discrimination that's taking place? how does thatç make you feel? >> it makes me feel extremely concerned. like i said, in fact, i'm afraid for where we are going with this. and it did make progress when president obama signed the lilly ledbetter fair pay act, because we had changed what had been done, and the supreme court, that was incorrect. and we changed the bill back. and we had support. this was a bipartisan bill. it was supported by republicans and democrats. and it was progress. and it's given the american people the right, if they learn that they're being discriminated against, to go forward. but when the gop candidate, governor romney, says i'll get
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back to you, this is scary. this is extremely scary. because we fought long and hard for this bill, and i lost so much money through the years, and i did not gain one thing out of this, except recognition. and i fought long and hard, 18 months in washington, lobbying and working to get this bill passed into law. and when it did, i felt so proud for what it meant for my daughter, my granddaughter, and the other working women and their families across this nation. >> and i think, does this, in your opinion, signal that we still have a long way to go? there is still a lot of injustices that are playing out when it comes to gender pay in this country. i mean, you were at goodyear. you were paid less than your male coworkers. you said you lost a lot of money. actually, it was a grave injustice played out. orward, what do we have to do to make progress? >> we have to get other bills passed.
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we've been working on paycheck fairness. there is so much work to be done, ed, that i get up every day, ready to hit the road, and to go out and talk to people and show them exactly where we really are. because i had no idea until i got into my fight and my battle. but this has been a long, hard journey. and when i learned how much my family has suffered and done without, i do not want any other american family going through this. and i suffer even today because my retirement and my social security all is based on what i earned. and i can't let this happen to other people in this country, when we can do something about it. and i am concerned about this election and governor romney, the way he is portraying women. i am extremely concerned. evidently, he's out of touch with the american working class women across this nation and their families. >> lilly ledbetter --
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>> the middle class is struggling. >> you bet. lilly ledbetter, thank you for joining us on "the ed show" and thank you for all your work in this area. i appreciate it. and a programming note. tomorrow night, i'll have an exclusive interview with the vice president of the united states, joe biden. we'll have an in depth discussion covering all of the news of the day, including the republican's war on women's health care. next, rick santorum spent months trashing mitt romney. now he's out of the race, he might have to borrow mitt's aeth a sketch, don't you think? [ male announcer ] what's the beat that moves your heart?
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well, think about that. the people of pennsylvania won't get a chance to see the most conservative guy in the race, right? that's what we were told. i think this speaks volume about just how tough santorum really is, and it really highlights his lack of confidence. did he really believe? did he ever believe? santorum does not want to give mitt romney the street, i guess you could say, the political street credibility that the l t less-conservative candidate would defeat him on his home turf. that wouldn't sound real good for the convention and later on this year and would probably damage him for 2016. santorum would rather be a calculated politician than a hardline conservative. now santorum has to go back and see what he really said about this guy over the last six months. you know, the guy that he's been trashing. lucky for democrats, there were a lot of cameras rolling.
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>> he just doesn't have the goods to be able to motivate the republican base and win this election. >> you just don't have credibility, mitt, when it comes to repealing obama care. >> he is the worst republican in the country to put up against barack obama. >> he will say what he needs to say to win the election that's before him. >> this is someone who doesn't have a core. he's been on both sides of almost every single issue. >> imagine, had mitt romney been around at the time that we were drafting our constitution. he'd have just shaken it and just shook it up afterç it was approved to rewrite it. >> do you really believe this country wants to elect a wall street financier as the president of the united states? >> he supported the folks on wall street and bailed out wall street, was all for it. and then when it came to the auto workers and the folks in detroit, he said no. >> you win by giving people the opportunity to see a different vision for our country, not someone who's just going to be a little different than the person in there. if they're going to be a little different, we might as well stay with what we have. >> rick, that's all great tape! you mean that wouldn't play in pennsylvania?
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that wouldn't take you all the way to the convention? you know, for a guy that ran around the country talking about how he was just so strong in his convictions and he was a conservative with strong convictions and time and time again saying that he's the one, for a guy not wanting to play on his home turf, i think this is going to follow him for a long, long time. too much calculation and not enough fight for rick santorum. next, florida congressman allen west tries to gin up a modern day red scare. bob shrum joins me to try to make sense of west's ridiculous comments and democratic reaction. i used to only wear sun protection on a beach day.
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or weakness. that could be a sign of a rare but serious side effect. >> is your cholesterol where your doctor wants? ask your doctor if crestor is right for you. >> announcer: if you can't afford your medication, astra zeneca may be able to help. and in the big finish tonight, congressman allen west is calling democrats in congress communists. >> that's the guy that sarah palin this is ought to be the next vice president. leaders of the progressive caucus hit back hard, saying
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allen west is degenerating the millions of american who is voted to elect congressional progressive caucus members. when people like representative west have no ideals or principles, they rely on personal attacks. we will not engage in base and childish conversations that lower the level of discourse americans rightly expect from their representatives. let's turn to bob shrum, democratic strategist and also professor at nyu. bob, what's your reaction to this? why is he going down this road? he knows it's not true? >> well, first of all, ed, i've got to say, i know why sarah palin's for him for vice president, because he'll make her look like she was qualified for the job. look, in his view, his folks are members of the communist party, because they're for the medicare guarantee, which republicans are trying end to. they're for tax fairness, the progressive income tax, which of course was promoted in this country by that great communist leader, theodore roosevelt. look, these folks have a vocabulary of lies and smears.
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he's just the outlier, the what can c canko, the extreme edge of it. if you think rationing in the health reform bill, which never existed. you think of west himself saying that democrats are vile, vicious socialists before he escalated to calling them communists, there's a playbook here. the playbook is they can't win on the substance. they have to label democrats. he makes the tactics transparent because he's so absurd and ridiculous. >> where does this rank in the list of crazy that comes from allen west, in the list of things he's said. and he doubled down on it today, he's not backing off of it. is this just who this guy is, or is he trying to develop some kind of narrative for the hard-right wing? >> there are people on the hard right who like him. i'm sure there are people in the republican party who wish he would shut up, because he goes so far, he exposes what he's doing. >> do you think he believes it? >> look, i can't get inside his
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mind to the extent there is one. i just can't. i mean, the things he's said about debbie wasserman schultz, about the president, about democrats in congress, over and over and over again. this is someone who is really out there on the edge, but we have to understand, he also illustrates the dark side of republican politics, which is to use these labels, to demonize the opposition, not to debate on substance, because they're not going to win on substance. it's to debate these things by smearing democrats, smearing what they stand for, and making them un-american. >> do you think there's any chance that he would be getting the vp nod with mitt romney? gosh, that'd be a dandy, wouldn't it? >> can i endorse him? >> go right ahead. >> i mean, i'mç for paul ryan, you know, i think he would draw a really sharp contrast between the parties. i think that's a good idea. but this guy, you know, there's no chance that mitt romney would ever put him on a ticket. but there's probably not much of a chance that mitmn

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